“Famicareer” featured within Famitsu.com is a job site specialized in the game industry. In this corner, "Famicareer!" hears from managements and creators of each game maker who are playing an active role at the forefront of the game industry. “Famicareer!” visited Soleil this time.

Soleil was founded in 2008 by Mr. Yoshifuru Okamoto, who started his career as a game creator at Tecmo. Since then, Soleil has continued to focus on the development of "action games for home consoles" and have developed titles such as the latest title "Ninjala", "NARUTO TO BORUTO Shinobi Striker" and "SAMURAI JACK: BATTLE THROUGH TIME".
We spoke with Mr. Yoshifuru Okamoto, who leads the company as president.

Yoshifuru Okamoto
SOLEIL LTD.
Representative Director/Persident/Producer

First of all, please tell us how you came into the game industry. Ever wanted to make a game since childhood?

Okamoto： When I was an elementary school student, Osamu Tezuka and Fujio Fujiko were my heroes, and I was absorbed in reading their works. I think I read almost all of them including minor works. I wanted to become a manga artist because of the influence of Mr. Fujio Fujiko's "Manga Michi" (Manga Road) that I especially liked. I remember asking my parents to buy G-pen and manuscript paper for my birthday.

It’s authentic.

Okamoto： When I was in the second grade of elementary school, Christmas gifts were a lot of coarse paper. It's like, "Not cool, but it's a gift that knows me well" (laughs). I was aspiring to be a manga artist, but I wasn't particularly introverted, I was cheerful in my class, I was doing sports, and I felt like, "This is not really me." I was wondering.

Even when you got home, you were drawing pictures, right?

Okamoto： Yes. Since my father was an archaeologist, a lot of drafting papers were available at home. So I drew lines to make frames on the paper first and then I was drawing manga by watching someone’s example.

Original ones?

Okamamoto： I was also thinking about the story and settings myself. One piece of my work required two notebooks to complete. However, in many cases, my story suddenly completed. I have a boring personality (laughs). I also drew 4-frame manga as well as some illustrations for my class newspaper.

Were you playing the game as well?

Okamoto： Since I am a NES generation, I was naturally addicted to it. Famicom was the Christmas present for the next year when I got coarse paper (laughs). I played almost all of the NES games out there at the time. My parents allowed me to play games only on rainy days, so I was frequently hanging around at my friends' house (laughs). The first game I played all night was "Mario Bros." Me and my cousin greeted the next morning with red eyes. I also played through Namco's "Sangokushi: Chugen no Hasha" (Three Kingdom Saga: Conqueror in Midland) as I was influenced by Mitsuteru Yokoyama's "Sangokushi" (Three Kingdom Saga). It was my formative experience that playing NES games in turn with my friends in a boisterous manner. Other than that, I was just a naughty boy who loved mischief.

Didn’t you think of going straight to become a manga artist?

Okamoto： When I was a junior high school student, I was a little away from drawing. After all I wanted to be popular with girls (laughs). Deviated from Manga Road, I began to go wild a little and play baseball, etc. When I was in college, I was nonchalantly wondering what to do, but it was the employment ice age those days, and people around me were very seriously shaping up for job interview, buying many self-analysis books and taking seminars etc.

Everyone was desperate to get into a major first-class company such as Sony, Honda, or Dentsu, but I thought I would be useless in such a company. I thought, "I don't have the ability to do what everybody think is right." I didn't have such mind, either (laughs). It may sound cool if I say I am pursuing originality, but I was groundlessly thinking it would be better for me to arrange my style and live my own way at the point a little out of the middle.

So what made you decide to aim for the game industry?

Okamoto： When I was wondering what I liked, I was drawing manga when I was in elementary school, I also liked Famicon, and even made my own game book that says “If you’ve done that, then you jump to page XX.”I was also making a baseball game with a hexagonal eraser as well as my original stage of "Super Mario Bros." with graph paper. Although the word "level designer" didn’t exist then, I was doing something close to that.

Actually, my four-frame manga was featured on Famitsu, and I got a gold gavas (laughs). So I thought I'd write a game concept document. But I had nothing to do with computer science because I majored in history at the university under my father’s influence. So I thought it would be difficult for me to make it with a personal computer and wrote it by hand after all. I wrote several game concept documents such as “Manzai Tsukkomi Game” (SITCOM comedian making funny comments on jokes) and “Primitive Men’s Open World.” I drew pictures for the documents as well. I tried my best, but I was not sure if they were right as a game concept document.

Have you thought of going under the influence of your father to pursue archaeology?

Okamoto： Since I was born in the 1980s, the middle of Spielberg generation. I thought something like "Indie Jones" was also cool, so I studied such field at university and participated in excavation research in Italy. I was wondering if I could go to archaeology in the future, but I was told when I talked to my father, "Archaeologists don’t make money. Never come here.” I was surprised with him making such a harsh comment on his own profession, but my family was poor for sure (laughs).

When I thought about my future, there was certainly a dream in archaeology, but I began to feel like going on a different path than my father. I still respect my father, though. So, I visited various game makers with the concept documents I mentioned earlier, and as the result, I was miraculously accepted by Tecmo and Capcom. However, my girlfriend I was dating with at the time began to say, "If you go to Osaka (where Capcom is), I will part with you..." (laughs).

How was it when you first joined Tecmo?

Okamoto： I believed there were only weird people in the game industry, and I thought I shouldn't lose there. That's why on the day of joining the company, I dyed my hair blond and put the paper tattoo I bought in Bali on my graduation trip on my body. But when I heard we would have three months of training at the beginning and you would be kicked out if you behave badly or make poor scores during that period, I immediately dropped my tattoo (laughs).

Have you felt planning task was right for you since then?

Okamoto： Rather than that, I couldn’t do anything else. I couldn’t do programming, CG and sound, either. Once I challenged character design, but the character I drew at that time miraculously had the right foot on both feet (laugh). As such, looking back on my life so far, it seems I am making my own choices, but I may have been rather optimistic and left myself in the flow. It feels like I've come along only with unfounded confidence.

What was your first project at Tecmo?

Okamoto： There is a dance game called "UNiSON" released on PlayStation 2. I started with something like command input for that dance. Since it was a young team, they accepted a wacko like me. The seniors were kind to me (laughs). After that, I heard the news a remake version of "Rygar" known as a popular arcade game years ago would be released on PlayStation 2 and its world view would be based on ancient Greece and Rome. So I told the producer, "The project will be chancy without me," and he allowed me to join the project.

After all, did you get involved in the creation of world view?

Okamoto： Yes. I was creating its world view and setting, writing scripts as well as making arrangement for cutscenes. So, in the second year, when new people came in, I told them, "I'm familiar with everything, so you gotta listen to me," although I'm still in the second year (laughs). Then I met a newcomer named Aoyagi.

I used to participate in the Italian research team at the University of Tokyo during my university days. The captain was a famous Professor Aoyagi (*), and when I heard the name of that newcomer, I had a little premonition, and when I heard his story, it turned out he was the son of Professor Aoyagi.

* Masanori Aoyagi: Japanese art historian and emeritus professor at the University of Tokyo. Previously served as Director of the National Museum of Western Art and Secretary of Culture of the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology.

What a coincidence!

Okamoto： Then I got along with Aoyagi since then and he is still in our company.

After that, you got involved in the production of "NINJA GAIDEN". How was that process like?

Okamoto： I had little experience in an athletic club and was talking casually even to my seniors at university. Even after joining the company I was doing that. Then, Kanematsu (*), who was the general manager at that time, told me, "You're a bit weird, so get yourself trained properly there,” and I was transferred to TeamNINJA. I felt a little scary because people were saying, "You can't come back once you go there."

* Satoshi Kanematsu: Current CEO of Valhalla Game Studios

Team leader Tomonobu Itagaki was also scary (laughs). At the social gathering before joining the company, only Mr. Itagaki wore sunglasses and had a scary aura around him while everyone was making a lot of noise. He asked me, "Do you know "Dead or Alive"?" and when I answered, "Eh, that erotic fighting game?", he got mad and said, "I'll remember that." However, I thought it would be all right because I was assigned to the team by company order. When I went to the team, Mr. Itagaki was absent because of E3 or something, and no other members knew that I would join the team. I was left there unattended for a week. And one week later, badass drill sergeant (laughs) came back and said, "Welcome to the team!"

He remembered that episode at the gathering.

Okamoto： When I was told, "Be prepared, we can't sleep from today." I said to myself, “No kidding?” But he was serious. It was just about three months before the mastering up of "NINJA GAIDEN.” Mr. Itagaki said, "I'm going to tune up the game with you from today."

My role was to play every ROMs delivered to us and make my comments this and that in front of Mr. Itagaki. I think it was good I was making such comments with no hesitation. I heard that task would last for three months, but it was extended for half a year and then for a year. After all, we continued that task for more than a year, from morning till night. At night, Mr. Itagaki sometimes started saying, "There are some people who play games while drinking beer, so I'll do it to understand their feelings." I guess he just wanted to drink it himself (laughs).

That is also amazing.

Okamoto： I worked very hard for a year like that, and finally Mr. Itagaki began to show his approval of my work. Then, I was asked to create an online visual lobby for "Dead or Alive 4." However, the first image of that lobby given by him was totally ridiculous. I didn’t know how to react when he said, "You can become an octopus or squid here. The concept is stylish pop!" (laughs)...

When I made it without figuring out the image at all, I was told that's what it was. From that point on, the development of the entire online lobby for "Dead or Alive 4" was entrusted to me. After that, Mr. Itagaki and I co-produced "NINJA GAIDEN 2", but since Tecmo at that time began to make a lot of serialized products, I gradually began to think of becoming independent around that time.

You wanted to newly create an original title.

Okamoto： Yes. So, 12 years ago, in 2008, Mr. Itagaki established Valhalla Game Studio, and Hiroaki Matsui, the director of the "NINJA GAIDEN" series, and I started Soleil.

The company name Soleil didn't show up much until the release of the 2018 NARUTO TO BORUTO Shinobis Triker (hereafter "Shinobi Striker"). Is there any reason for this?

Okamoto： Originally, Soleil was supposed to work as a partner development company of Valhalla Game Studios, and we did not intend to make its name public. After becoming independent, we proceeded with the development of "Devil's Third" in collaboration with Valhalla Game Studio. During the course of development, our client changed about three times and this project was finally picked up by Nintendo. We could release it on Wii U after 5 years of development. However, unfortunately, it was not commercially very successful.

We challenged again with the PC version with its online features revamped, hoping it will be successful worldwide. But it didn’t come out right as we had little experience of online service operation. So when we were really in the clutch, Bandai Namco Entertainment came to me and said, "Would you like to make a "NARUTO" game?" After we accepted that project, the name of Soleil came out to public.

You decided to make a popular IP (intellectual property) title instead of original, but didn’t you have any resistance in your mind?

Okamoto： It wasn't what we wanted at first and it was what we started to do to survive, but we could learn a lot of things from that work. For example, "The player who loves the original story will think this way in that situation, so we have to create such a mechanism to satisfy him on the game side." I haven't had such idea before. I think that part will be our huge asset when we challenge the market with our original title in the future. I really appreciate "NARUTO" and Bandai Namco Entertainment.

Has the company experienced any change when your development system shifted from "Devil's Third" to "Shinobi Striker"?

Okamoto： We started Soleil 12 years ago, but it was like we were just proceeding with the development together with Valhalla Game Studios, so Soleil's corporate philosophy wasn’t clear enough then. The team, that had been an ever victorious corps, experienced the first failure with "Devil's Third" and felt the fear when everything did not turn out well even if we put in the development cost and bet our credits. In that sense, I have to admit we had been depending on Mr. Itagaki that much.

Soleil truly became independent after "Devil's Third", and from that point on, I think I became firmly aware of how companies and games should be designed. So it's been 12 years since the company was founded, but it's only about these 5 years that I started to pay full attention to Soleil as a company.

I believe Soleil's distinct personality will continue to emerge in the future, but will you continue to focus on action games?

Okamoto： After all, our team has been making fighting games and action games all the time, so I do not think we should compete in a genre that deviates from our specialty. I believe the only game we create that can compete in the world is an action game. However, basically, I want to challenge everything that centers on action games. Action RPG is also good and action puzzle games may be interesting as Mr. Kazuki Morishita of GungHo Online Entertainment who I respect says "Puzzle & Dragons" is also an action game.

Anyway, I hope input and output will be just pleasant and fun for players. We must always be aware of our own strengths, and we need to consider what kind of output the player would appreciate and feel pleasant when he performs certain actions and reactions in a game. It is very important to keep that stance as a core part in our mind. My game-making teacher is Mr. Itagaki, so I don't take what I’ve been taught on blind faith, I arrange it in my own way. While making the most of what is important, I want to continue my work, teaching young people little by little.

You mentioned earlier that you could learn a lot from development of IP titles, but what about the enchantment and the difficulty of working on IP products?

Okamoto： The most important thing is the basic premise that the appeal of that IP has to be maximized by the game. In the first place, speaking of why we create a game based on the IP, for example, it is to make you develop emotional attachments to a certain character from that IP by allowing you to operate him or her in the game. Otherwise, it is to make you feel afresh the appeal of the IP like “NARUTO is cool” by having you experience a totally different approach from the original. These are the most important things. For that reason, we just cram our technologies into the game in a matter-of-fact way. You can’t create an IP title unless all the project members read the original and fully understand its charms.

At the time of Team NINJA and when Soleil was founded, it was like focusing on how I draw out what Mr. Itagaki had in mind and shape it with my own thoughts. But, since IP things already exist in the world, you have to gather information from there and accurately understand what that IP is meant for its fans, including how those fans are emotionally involved in it, before you start making such a game. At first my understanding in that area was not enough. "Shinobi Striker" will be celebrating its second anniversary in August this year and the number of players has considerably increased over the past two years, but the initial reaction from the market was not that good. At the beginning, we received feedback from not only game fans but also "NARUTO" fans, saying "I don't feel any love for the original work."

That’s grueling.

Okamoto： Yes, it is. So, for the past two years, we continued our development work steadily for its operation, trying hard to understand the original work once again and communicating with the players. Currently, we are also handling titles such as "Samurai Jack: Battle Through Time", which is a very popular cartoon anime in the United States, and "Kimetsu-no-Yaiba: Keppu-Kengeki Royale", but since love for the original work is important, I’m telling our staff they should enjoy and love the work yourself in the first place. We are also learning a lot from Naruto, Jack, and Tanjiro.

Is it difficult for you to work out differences between the logic in terms of game development and the area where you need to maximize the appeal of IP?

Okamoto： Yes. Since every member is a game creator, each of them has a ruling passion for his or her own idea that a game should be like this. However, if implementing such idea makes IP less attractive, our decision will be to prioritize the appeal of IP itself. Such way of thinking is also useful when we create original products. Whether it's an existing IP or an original IP, I believe how you portray the appeal of IP as a game is a key.

I would like to ask about your original work as well. Is there anything concrete you’re currently working on in order to establish your own IP in the future?

Okamoto： I think that there are individual steps we should take to get there. Right now, we are creating existing popular IP products, but the next step is to create a new IP together with a publisher. "Ninjala", which is being developed together with GungHo Online Entertainment, corresponds to this.

Making original works with other publishers is also a great learning experience. I am currently studying how a publisher thinks and tries to create their IP from zero in order to spread it around the market as a solid IP. The next step is the final goal, which is to create an environment where everything can be brought through to completion ourselves like Gung Ho, and to be able to truly create what we want to make. Even if you try to go to the final step too hastily, it will probably fail. So we take such a step one by one as we still need time for brand-building of our company as well as the growth of our employees.

Is it an image, shifting from a developer to a publisher in the future?

Okamoto： It's the easiest image to understand, but as another method, I think there is a way to create a game with our own resources as a developer and offer it to a publisher. But it is still an idea and it is feasible only when you have such a partner. So I don’t know what will happen. However, at the end of the day, I hope we will be able to create a pure manufacturing environment where we can create what we find interesting in a beeline.

But, of course, since it is good to experience making IP games, I would like to continue that line. While retaining what we have learned and experienced so far, I hope we will be able to launch a project with our own resources eventually. Because I believe existing IP titles, new titles to be co-developed with a publisher and completely new titles to be created by ourselves can coexist in our production line.

As of now, you are going through steps such as IP and co-development projects in order, right?

Okamoto： That's right. Until now, we could make a game rather cozily under the flag of Tecmo or Mr. Itagaki, but in order to become truly independent as Soleil, we need to move forward while getting back to basics to study the step of making IP games once again. It may be thought Soleil is a game company who develops existing IP titles only because only our initial step is currently known to public through media. But our ultimate goal is an original work.

I believe everyone who joined this industry must have a certain aspiration that he or she definitely wants to create something in their career. Without it, I don’t think they are qualified to join this industry. That is why I want to gradually shift our company into the one with healthy environment where such an aspiration is feasible. If you love "NARUTO," it is of course fine for you to make a "NARUTO" game, and if you want to make an original one, you can do so. I want to create such a productive environment here. In that productive environment, we want to create the best action games and continue to be successful with those games all over the world.

How’s the atmosphere inside the company?

Okamoto： It’s noisy (laughs). As of now, it is generally said that remote work improves business performance under the influence of the new corona virus. But, after all, games are delicately formed on reconciliations between your sensitivity and others’. So if you don't communicate with others face-to-face, you won't be able to get things right. Therefore, we focus on overall performance as well as individual performance. Making games is a group work that weighs heavily on each member’s sensitivity, but I feel it is a difficult part of game production to make aggregate value of individual performances directly result in overall performance.

Certainly, there may be some parts that are difficult to convey among people when it is remote.

Okamoto： Even if you hold a meeting online, what you see on the screen is only the upper half of your partner. So even if he shows an approving face on the screen, he may be shaking his legs under the table. As such, the amount of information here is overwhelmingly small. If it were usual, when you suggested an idea, you can judge comprehensively from his overall reaction that he doesn’t buy my idea that much. But, if it’s online, it’s difficult to make such a judgment.

Even earlier, when the flextime system was talked about, we took a stance that it was justice for us to gather at a place for a longer time. Even if everyone is in the office, heatedness won’t be created without sharing the time to create friction among us. I have a belief that it is impossible to convey our passion to the customers if there is no such heatedness at the production site.

You are weighing heavily on close communication.

Okamoto： Right. There is no partition in our office as we aim to have an open discussion. Our staff are not split up into a group per project either because I want them to get curious about others’ work and get stimulated and inspired each other. For example, like “What you’re doing now is already done in our project.”, it is such an image that information sharing is done quickly and casually.

In terms of mixing up people closely each other, about 20% of our staff are foreigners. But I don't even distinguish them from Japanese because it's more interesting to mix and reassemble them in an open manner.

If it were that open, there would be more collisions, wouldn't it?

Okamoto： Collisions are welcome. They should discuss each other until they get satisfied. It’s fine if such discussion is done in a proactive manner. The worst thing is not to say what you think. It means you’re giving up your responsibility at that point. What is worse than that is saying something behind the scenes without saying anything on the spot. When you’re online, it tends to be forgiven even if you don’t speak a word, but when you’re having a meeting with others at the same place, you will face no choice but to speak while you’re looking at everyone’s face. I think such a situation is much healthier.

I'm telling our people we should try to increase the value of working together for now. I don't think it's okay at all for us to be the same as before. I’m not sure if this applies to everyone, but, for example, when I was in elementary school, I was enjoying every day at full stretch like "When I go to school, I can meet my friend so-and-so. Then we can play like this during a break between classes. What will we have for lunch today?" I want this company to be such a place where you can get into your work that way.

Hearing such a story from you, I feel there must be a lot of interaction between the staff. Can you tell me how things are going among them?

Okamoto： Probably, I think we are the number one among game development companies in Japan in terms of the “amount of liquor acquired” per person (laugh). We have so many opportunities to go out to drink, whether at work or not, and the nearby drinking spots are more or less like a clubroom. Of course, there are many people who cannot drink among us, but, other than alcohol, we have the most powerful communication tool called “game.” So we are all having fun in the playroom where games are playable. We have participated in the “Super Smash Bros.” competition as a team.

We often hear about things like club activities at a company to encourage interaction among employees. Do you have anything similar to that?

Okamoto： I think it would be nice if the staff could do such an activity for themselves rather than the company makes an arrangement for them. I definitely want to prepare opportunities and places to trigger such an event for them, but people get hot over a thing they found themselves rather than the one prepared by someone else. So, I feel such activities should happen spontaneously. Since there are various hobbies such as surfing, fishing and mahjong, we just provide opportunities where they can talk about their favorite pursuits.

Then, can you tell me what kind of person you are expecting for as an employee of your company? Do you have a certain image of a person who is likely to play an active role in your company?

Okamoto： Since our personnel evaluation is not based on seniority system, a passionate and resourceful person is more likely to realize his or her dream in our company. No problem even if you have a strong self-assertion. I understand it is difficult for everyone to walk the talk, but it's important to speak up first. Once you make an assertion, I'll gently squeeze on you like "You'll do it because you said it, right?" (laughs). Our job is to transmit our message to our game users after all. So I want people who has such a professionalism to come.

Professionalism is an attitude rather than a technical skill.

Okamoto： Well, as a frame of mind, I believe we always should know making games is not an easy task. If there will be more people who think game making is an easy task among us, proactive discussion won’t happen and consequently, mutual back-scratching result in a less interesting game. I don't like that, and it is rude to our customers as well. Game making truly requires a lot of hard work (laughs). As we want to make games based on the world standard, in that sense I wish those who want to join us to have a solid sense of professionalism.

I want our staff to have confidence and passion through their work that allow them to make a smug face not only to Japanese, but also to people all over the world such as English, Indian, and Brazilian, and say “This is the game I made!” So I want to see their passion first as they can learn technologies later. I hope they will be able to say what they want to express through this work with their heads high. Such thoughts are infused in our company logo and out motto, "Always keep the sun in your heart."

These days, I feel many people tend to think they “must acquire skills in the first place.”

Okamoto： Of course it is important. Performance and skills are also necessary, but once you enter the game industry, you might probably continue working for the next 40 years. In order to continue for such a long period, it is hard to maintain frame of your mind without passion after all. You may get lost on the way.

Otherwise, those who are interested in human-beings are welcome. People who are interested in analog as well as digital are good. Although we use digital tool for this job, our service is made for human-beings after all. Since our customers are analog human-beings who have emotions, you cannot make games or the game you make will be self-content if you are indifferent to them. I want people who are really interested in humans to come.

The arrival of next-generation consoles is approaching, but will Soleil continue to mainly develop games for home consoles?

Okamoto： Right. The main line of our products is for home console, but we also want to try smartphone games like "Kimetsu-no-Yaiba: Keppu-Kengeki Royale" because it will be standard for one game to be playable on any platform in the near future. Moreover, Soleil also develops games for next-generation consoles using Unreal Engine. I definitely want to invite technology professionals as well.

In that case, I think global market is already in your sight as a matter of fact, but what is your image of your company's position in the future?

Okamoto： Since competing in the field of next-generation hardware is a must item for us, in that sense, we would like to be one of the ten leading developers in the world who develop games for home consoles. There are various benchmarks for ranking, but I want our company to be named as one of those 10 leading companies who develop action and fighting games. I am often asked, "Who is your competitor in Japan?" But I’m not caring about other companies in Japan that much.

It may sound pretentious, but if you are looking at Japan market only, you will be caught up in the system value available only in Japan. So I do not dare to do so. When I joined the industry, it was quite normal for us to sell our games all over the world, and once we released a game, it sold 3 million or 4 million units. We were in such times and could experience great excitement, hearing comments like “Japanese games are amazing!” from players all around the world. Enthusiasm was there too! I want young people to know “The work you guys are doing is an amazing thing. It makes people all over the world happy, sad and even surprised!” I want them to experience such an excitement again.

The situation has changed significantly from that time up until now.

Okamoto： I want to give back to the game industry. I've been in the industry for about 20 years now. As I've been able to live a very interesting life, I'm very thankful to my peers and seniors. It's a very tough but fun and exciting job. But, younger generation will never grow up if you treat them just strictly. So I would like to do everything I can to show them a dream to be realized after making great efforts.

Soleil was founded in 2008 by Mr. Yoshiko Okamoto, who started a career as a game creator at Tecmo. Since then, they have continued to focus on the development of "action games for home consoles" such as the latest title "Ninjala", "NARUTO TO BORUTO Shinobi Striker" and "SAMURAI JACK: BATTLE THROUGH TIME" for oversea markets. They are good at development with Unreal Engine 4, and have many veteran developers with over 20 years of experience in the industry along with others who joined later and many foreign employees. Soleil is one of the few development studios that can create high-end games with world-class standard and actively taking up challenges for the development of games from original IP to copyrighted ones.

Representative Director/President： Yoshifuru Okamoto
Founded： August 1, 2008
Employees： 98 (as of July 13, 2020)
Business： Game Software Development

* This interview was provided by Famitsu.com .